Steve Wozniak The Great Woz by Charis Tsevis

Steve Wozniak: The Great Woz by Charis Tsevis

Steve Woz在最近受到邀請,到印度Bangalore為當地的年輕創業者演講。以下是在印度時,Sunday MIDDAY對他所做的訪談節錄……

What brings you to India?

Oh, I was invited by the Young Presidents Organisation to address their group (in Bangalore) and they had gotten in touch via all my speech-people. This is the first time I have come to India; in fact, this is the first time I have been invited which is strange because about two years ago, I did three keynotes all around the world for Infosys (Infosys Technologies, the Bangalore-headquartered software firm). And I kept telling all the top executives that I would love to come to India some day and I never got an invitation until this one.

是什麼原因讓你到印度來的?

噢,我是被青年領袖組織邀請,來為他們(在Bangalore)的團體發表演講的。他們在之前就透過我所有的發言人聯絡。這是我第一次到印度。事實上,到現在我才第一次來印度有點怪,因為大約在兩年前,我就已經為Infosys(Infosys Technologies,總部位於Bangalore的軟體公司)在世界各地做了三場演講。我一直與他們所有的高層人員說我想來印度,不過我從來都沒獲得邀請,直到現在。

When you see these young guys in India, do you believe they will break the mould of India being the backoffice hub for the world when it comes to developing world-changing software products?

Yes, I do. And I have a reason. I see a lot of technical enthusiasts, a lot of engineers in Silicon Valley. I see a lot of Indian people. I see a lot of people from Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Singapore. But look at the Indians. They are bright, they are enthusiastic, they are hard-working. They have all the attributes to become successful in Silicon Valley. Some of the great engineers and technologists in Apple and all the other big companies like Google and Microsoft are Indians. So clearly they have got some inner skills and abilities. I think then it just means having a sense of clarity and the level of confidence, and they could make it big.

當你看到這些印度的年輕人,你是否相信他們有一天會打破目前印度作為世界幕後樞紐的狀況,進而研發出能改變世界的軟體產品呢?

是的,我相信。我有很多相信的理由。我看過許多喜歡技術的人,許多工程師在矽谷。我也見過了許多印度的人,以及日本、越南、菲律賓、新加坡等等國家的人。不過在印度,人們很開朗、很熱衷、並且非常努力工作。他們有著所有在矽谷能成功的特質。部分最棒的Apple工程師與技術人員都是印度人,其他諸如Google或是Microsoft等大公司的頂尖人材也幾乎都是印度人。很明顯地,他們已經具備了某些內在的技能與能力。我覺得這代表著他們有很明晰的感覺以及自信的水平,他們可以成大事的。

But is being at Silicon Valley so important for technology innovation?

Not at all. Microsoft did not start in Silicon Valley; it started way up north in Seattle. Nor did Apple. And they could have been anywhere in the world. Infosys is “elsewhere in the world” company. So there are ways that technology companies can start off today with the Internet. A lot of our (Apple’s) developers are anywhere in the world. And we hire engineering groups in India; in Russia, everywhere.

What is it about America then that all these young geeks set up businesses and they become super-successful… Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Twitter…

You know, there are already a lot of people around you that have done it. And that gives you the confidence to feel you can do it too and not feel scared.

對於科技創新來說,身在矽谷會是非常重要的因素嗎?

不盡然。Microsoft並不是在矽谷起家,他是在遙遠北方的Seattle。Apple也不是。他們可以在世界上的任何地方。Infosys就是一間「在世界各地」的公司。在今日,科技公司可以透過網路來開業。我們(Apple)許多的研發也是在世界各地進行。我們聘請了印度、俄羅斯以及世界各個角落的工程團隊。

而在美國,這些年輕的科技宅們成立了公司,並且變得超級成功。例如Apple、Microsoft、Facebook、Google、Yahoo、Twitter……

你知道,在你周遭已經有許多人都做到了。這可以給你一點信心,讓你不會害怕、而且覺得自己也一樣能做到。

You were not scared of failure?

We were not scared. These young people… they are trying something that the formulas of life tell you will not succeed. They think differently and are not scared. They don’t think, “What if I don’t make any money?” Look, it doesn’t matter if you don’t make any money. Because you don’t have any money to begin with.  Steve Jobs and I did not have any money to begin with. I guess in America, the environment to create successful businesses exists and people around you encourage you to do that.

你們不害怕失敗嗎?

我們並不害怕。這些年輕人,他們正在嘗試那些人生規則告訴他們不會成功的一些事。他們有著不同的想法,並且並不害怕。他們並不會想著「如果我沒有賺到一毛錢該怎麼辦?」你瞧,是否能賺到錢並不重要。因為你一開始的時候根本沒有錢。Steve Jobs與我剛開始什也沒有任何錢。我想在美國來說,環境可以創造出一間成功的企業,而周遭的人們也會鼓勵你去這樣做。

But that would apply to other countries as well…

Obviously. But maybe it’s all the resources being in one place in America. It encourages entrepreneurship; risk-taking. For example, I designed a great computer once – the Apple II – and it was going to change the world. But I could have designed a great computer, and not had all the small pieces that fit together to make a great company. Which means you have to hire presidents, operations people, engineers, factory people, marketing people, accountants. You have to do all that in a small company, even if it is just eight people. Or, your computer just won’t get recognized. You might win the Nobel Prize for it, but you can’t necessarily change the world.

但是,那同樣也能適用在其他國家嗎……

當然。但是,也許在美國是因為所有的資源都集中在同一個地方。它鼓勵企業家的精神,以及冒險的行為。例如,我曾經設計出了一台很棒的電腦──Apple II,這台電腦曾經改變了世界。另一種可能是,我同樣設計出了一台很棒的電腦,但是並沒有將所有小元素結合在一起,成為一間偉大的企業。這代表你必須雇用總裁、營運人員、工程師、工廠員工、行銷人員、會計師……在小公司裡你必須做這所有的事,即使公司裡只有八個人。更或是,你的電腦並沒有被大家所認識。雖然你也許會贏得諾貝爾和平獎,不過也不一定能改變世界。

Is that why the Apple II became so successful?

Apple II became successful because of various reasons. Steve Jobs had a large part to play in it, and he knew where he wanted to go with it. It was an excellent product. Steve Jobs sought the best things in the world. He knew that I was the best designer, and that Apple II was the best computer, and that’s why he wanted both. We were best friends, though. So that helped. It was excellent because it came from my one mind. I controlled the entire environment of how that computer was built. It worked so well that very few parts did very much. Only because, I wanted a computer for me. And it had to be that beautiful.

Apple II是因此才會變的如此成功嗎?

Apple II的成功有許多因素。Steve Jobs在其中扮演著很重要的腳速,他很明確地知道他想要的是什麼。Apple II是一個優秀的產品。Steve Jobs也曾經將之視為世界上最棒的玩意。他知道我是最好的設計師,而Apple II是最好的電腦,這也是為何他兩者都想要的原因。我與他是最好的朋友,這點也有幫助。Apple II的優秀,是因為那是我一個人想出來的。我可以控制整個電腦開發的環境,以及每個細節。Apple II運作的很好,並且可以用非常少的零件做到非常多的功能。這一切都是因為,我只想為我自己做出一台電腦。而這台電腦就是必須要如此地美麗。

But the Apple III failed… is it because there were too many people working on it?

Yes, if the guys at Apple had built the machine that they would love, it would have been successful. It came instead from formulas from Apple executives. Marketing people were in charge and some very bad decisions got made, in my opinion. There were hardware failures. You put out a product that has failures right away, and even if you fix it a year later, it just doesn’t sell. It’s the same thing with any smartphone today. It comes out and it has something horribly wrong about it. You can fix everything wrong about it, and it still won’t sell. It has missed its window of opportunity.

但是Apple III失敗了……是因為有太多人共同研發嗎?

是的,如果Apple裡的人造出了一台他們自己也會喜歡的機器,那這個東西就能成功。而Apple III是由Apple管理階層的方程式所產生的。在我看來,行銷人員成了主導,並且做出了一些非常糟糕的決定。你把一台馬上就會出問題的機器丟出來,即使一年後你把這問題修好,東西仍然賣不出去。而今天智慧型手機的狀況也是這樣。今天的智慧型手機半隨著一些恐怖的錯誤出現,這些產品已經錯過了它們的機會之窗。

But a lot of Apple products were failures, right?

Yes, the Apple III was a failure, the LISA was a failure, and the Macintosh was a failure. It was only by modifying the Macintosh hugely and over time that we made it a good computer. And Steve Jobs believed in many of these products.

不過許多Apple產品也是失敗的,對嗎?

是的。Apple III是失敗的,LISA是失敗的,Macintosh也是失敗的。但是也只有讓Macintosh經過大幅修改與長時間的演進後,才終於成為一台好電腦。而Steve Jobs也認為許多產品都是這個樣子。

Is Walter Isaacson’s biography of Steve Jobs an accurate representation of your relationship with Steve Jobs?

How would I know? I haven’t read it. I have been so busy in the last two months. I never got around to reading that book. It is on my Kindle, my iPhone, my iPad, on my computer and I bought a hard cover. But I have been so busy that I never read it. But I have lived a lot of it. So I am sure it is accurate. Steve Jobs was himself after honesty in the book, and he did not want the book to be closed or to hide the truth.

在Walter Isaacson撰寫的Steve Jobs傳記中,有準確地描述了你與Steve Jobs的關係嗎?

我不知道,我還沒有讀過。這兩個月內我非常地忙碌,我還沒有機會去讀這本書。雖然這本書已經在我的Kindle、 iPhone、iPad以及我的電腦上,我也買了一本硬殼精裝版,不過我一直很忙所以都沒看過。但是我已經聽說了很多,所以我相信那是正確的。Steve Jobs在這本書中很誠實,他不希望這本書很封閉,或是隱瞞了事實。

We all knew Jobs was going to die some day because of his cancer. But did it hit you hard when it actually happened?

It was a shock. It wasn’t really hard emotionally because we had expected his death for so long. So it was not something to tear up about. But, ah, Steve Jobs was such an important part of my life that sometimes I tear up.

我們都知道Jobs由於癌症,遲早有一天會死。但是在這件事真的發生的時候,是否有打擊到你呢?

這讓我很震驚。不過我們從很早前就已經預料到他的死亡,在感情上我們已經準備好了,所以這應該不是會讓人落淚的。不過,Steve Jobs畢竟是我人生中一個非常重要的部份,有時我還是會掉點眼淚。

In popular culture – books, television, even magazines – there is often this talk about how you and Steve Jobs were the best of friends and then one day he threw the remote control you had designed on to a wall and smashed it.

That was about the only incident where he treated me like he has treated other people. The reason he did it was because of miscommunication. He thought that I was against him and Apple. I wasn’t. I had made one phone call to John Sculley (the Apple CEO then). All I told him was that during the shareholders’ meeting, the Apple II was not mentioned once. All they talked about was Macintosh, Macintosh, Macintosh! And the people that I worked with were hurt. They felt ignored; they felt that they did not matter. I stood up for people who had been ignored. But later I sat Steve down, and then Apple gave me a nice letter and let me start my own remote control company (CL 9) even when I was with Apple. So I am still with Apple. At a small salary, but I am still with them.

在大眾文化裡──書籍、電視甚至是雜誌──常常會談到你與Steve Jobs是最好的朋友,不過有一天他把你設計的遙控器扔到牆上,並且砸爛它。

那大概是他唯一一次如同對待其他人一樣對待我的事。而他會這樣做的原因是由於溝通不良。他認為我要對抗他與Apple,不過我沒有。我當時與John Sculley(當時的Apple CEO)通過電話。電話中我只有說到在股東大會中,Apple II一次都沒有被提到。而他們只是不斷地在講Macintosh、Macintosh、Macintosh。而曾經與我一起工作的那些人對此很受傷。他們覺得被忽略,他們覺得自己一點也不重要。我為了那些被忽視的人而站了起來。不過, 我讓Steve冷靜了下來,最後Apple給了我一份很不錯的提案,讓我可以開始我自己的遙控器公司(CL9),一邊還能待在Apple。所以,我仍然在Apple。雖然只領著一點點的小薪資,不過我還是與他們在一起。

Wozniak Trivia

During the height of the Cold War, Steve Wozniak organised the US (pronounced “us”) Festival and connected via live video American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts. He became a hero in the then USSR, but not a single American media house covered it. He finally ended up losing $12 million in the venture.

Steve Wozniak was involved in a near-death air crash in February 1981. He lost his memory for close to five weeks.

Steve Wozniak did not finish college in the 1970s. Instead, he reenrolled at the University of California in Berkeley to complete his degree in 1986. He enrolled in the name of Rocky Raccoon Clark (Rocky Racoon was his dog’s name and Clark was his wife’s maiden name)

Wozniak小記事

在冷戰高峰期,Steve Wozniak舉辦了美國節(US Festiva,發音為「us(我們)」),並透過即時影像讓美國與俄羅斯太空人連線。他成為當時蘇聯的英雄,不過沒有半間美國媒體報導這件事。他最後在事業中損失了1,200萬。

Steve Wozniak在1981年二月的一場空難中差點死亡。他在意外中失去了近五週的記憶。

Steve Wozniak在1970年代時並沒有完成大學學業。不過他在1986年時,於Berkeley的University of California完成學位。他用Rocky Raccoon Clark這個名字註冊。(Rocky Raccoon是他的狗的名字,而Clark是他妻子原來的姓)

via Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak in India – NDTVGadgets.com